Sema Faigen

Mrs. Faigen describes her parents’ roles

Mrs. Faigen recalls the special treats of her youth

Mrs. Sema M. Faigen was born in 1928 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  Her father was a math professor at Carnegie Tech, which is now Carnegie Mellon University.   During the Depression years, her family was negatively impacted, but not to the extent that some families were.  She never felt deprived of good food because her mother was an excellent cook.  Mrs. Faigen came from a high school with a very good reputation where about half of the graduates went on to college.  She tells our generation, especially girls, to value the opportunities that are given to us such as higher education and jobs that weren’t accessible to as many people back then.

This is Fahad and Will, and we are interviewing Mrs. Sema Faigen on May 13, 2008 for the Wayland High School History Project.

Q: Please state your name.

Mrs. Faigen: I’m Sema M. Faigen.

Q: How old were you in 1929?

Mrs. Faigen: I was one year old. .  .  .

Q: Where did you live during the Depression?

Mrs. Faigen: I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and I lived there during the Depression. I lived there until 1949, when I married and left the city.

Q: What were your parents’ names?

Mrs. Faigen: My mother was Marion Sachs Moskovitz and my father was David Moskowvitz.

Q: What did they do for a living when you were small?

Mrs. Faigen: My mother had trained as a teacher. There were no teachers’ colleges in those days. She graduated from what was called normal school and she was a teacher of music and she taught for maybe a year in the Pittsburgh public schools before she was married. She was married quite young at nineteen. My father had gone to Carnegie Tech, Carnegie Institute of Technology, which is now Carnegie Mellon. He graduated as a civil engineer, but then went on to Brown to take his doctorate in mathematics and went back to Carnegie Tech to teach in the math department until his retirement in 1971 or ‘72.

Q: Do you have any siblings? Brothers or sisters?

Mrs. Faigen: I had a younger brother. He died a few years ago.

Q: About your mother, she was a teacher. How was her life as a homemaker affected?

Mrs. Faigen: Well, when she was married she could no longer work. There was a rule in the Pittsburgh school that married women could not teach . . .Going back to my mother, she was a homemaker for a good part of her life. When I was in high school, somewhere around the tenth or eleventh grade, she went back to teaching and it was a need. It was in order to help the family finances. My father, as I said was in the math department. It was prestigious being a math professor, but the pay was terrible, just terrible. They never told me how much he made because children weren’t supposed to worry about those things, but I know that at one point it was five thousand dollars a year and this was – I can’t equate that to what the dollar is worth nowadays, but believe me, it was very little. So, my mother went back to teaching.

Q: What kind of foods did you eat as a kid?

Mrs. Faigen: I’m tempted to say anything I could get my hands on, but that’s not quite true.

Q: Any pre-made foods? Like Spam?

Mrs. Faigen: I think Spam came around somewhere in my middle years. I don’t remember exactly, but Spam was not welcome in our house. My mother was a very good cook and she baked almost every day because for my father ice cream was something you had between meals, so later at night he wanted cake or pie, and there were always brownies and cookies or whatever. My mother cooked very good meals. There were times when the money ran out when the meals were improvised. Corn soup, for instance, is milk with a can of corn in it. We’d have some bread and butter with it and it was very good. There was a time when things got even worse than that. By that time my grandfather had moved from the hill district of Pittsburgh … From what was called hill street blues…  He and my grandmother had a Mom and Pop grocery store and my grandfather was getting on to fifty five and his children said “Papa, why are you still working?  Why don’t you retire?”  Well they retired to a poultry farm where he raised laying hens for almost forty more years. My grandmother didn’t live that long, but she had a kitchen garden and they had a few cows. That wasn’t their main source of income, but from the milk that the cows gave my grandmother made cottage cheese, and we had sour cream and we had vegetables from her garden. When my grandfather came into town, the farm was thirty miles outside of Pittsburgh, he came into town once a week to distribute the eggs, he would bring things. And he would go to one of his other customers before he got to us, and he would bring a jar of jelly or a package of cookies or some other goodies like that.

Q: When you went to the store when you were young, though you couldn’t really get anything you wanted, what did you want to get?

Mrs. Faigen: I guess I wanted ice cream and we had enough ice cream. My mother would send me to get small items and dad would take care of the major grocery shopping. There was a dessert that we would have if mother had been too tired to bake. It was a cake… About four or five by eight and it was called Ward’s Silver Queen. It was a white cake with a silvery white frosting on it, and that cake cost twelve cents, and that was enough for the family with a slice leftover. A loaf of bread, white sliced bread was eleven cents. I never felt the lack of anything and I didn’t feel the lack of candy because I had a great uncle who was in the wholesale candy business and so I had what I needed. When I was a little older, I used to like to buy a coke. My girl friends and I would walk home from school, stop at a drugstore, and there were a number of them on the way, and buy a small bag of potato chips and a coke, and sit and gossip and talk about boys.

Q: Did your family own a car?

Mrs. Faigen: Yes. My family had a car until the start of World War II. One of those cars was a Chevrolet and one was a Plymouth . . . During the second World War when gas was rationed, and there wasn’t enough gas to get my father down to Carnegie Tech and back, so we sold the car, which at that time was an Oldsmobile, very snazzy.

Q: Did you grow and can your own goods back then?

Mrs. Faigen: We didn’t because we lived in the city, but my grandmother on the farm did. She made jellies and canned the tomatoes and whatever else was good in the garden. She also made wine from the local fruit. There were elderberry bushes growing wild along the road, and one of my early memories is being plopped into, I was maybe four or five, plopped into the wheel barrow and given a ride out to where these elderberry bushes were. And we would pick the elderberries, and they weren’t much good to eat, I didn’t like them anyway. I was surrounded by elderberries and slightly stained from the juice. We took those back to my grandmother and she made wine from those and she made grape wine. And there was a grape vine, Concord grapes that grew. There was a barn where the animals were kept and in the early years on the farm they didn’t have running water so the water had to be pumped from a well. And over the pump, along the barn was a trellis on which grew the grapes, and that’s what she made wine from.

Q: How would you compare the clothes of today to then? How have the clothes changed?

Mrs. Faigen: Well clothing is different, clothing is different. I have some pictures which we can look at a little bit later. Women’s dresses were longer. I have a picture here of my mother when she was eighteen or nineteen. She’s wearing knickers and white stockings and shoes with a strap across, we would call that a Mary Jane. . .  When we children went to school, we wore leggings in the winter. There were no such things as pantyhose, that didn’t come until much later. Leggings, boots. I was not allowed to wear moccasins or sneakers because they weren’t good for my feet. No arch support in those . . . Other than length and where things got buttoned to, there was not basically a lot of difference. We didn’t have hoodies, we had sweaters and snow suits. You probably had snow suits when you were younger, too.

Q: Did girls mainly wear dresses?

Mrs. Faigen: Yes. Yes, and knee socks. I hated knee socks, so therefore I made my daughter wear socks [laughter]. . .

Q: What was your first memory of hard times? Was your family really effected by the Great Depression?

Mrs. Faigen: Yes. Not to the extent that other were. My own memory goes back pretty far. I have memories of isolated events from the time I was two years old and this next anecdote is not so much what I remember its what my parents have told me. This was when my father was at Brown doing his doctoral work, and this must have been 1930 or 1931. My parents told me that sometimes all they had to eat was a roll and coffee. They could go to the bakery, buy a day old roll for one cent, and they had coffee at home, and this would be their dinner. I, who was anemic, got to eat better than that. They would buy me a lamb chop or some bacon. We’re Jewish and it went against my father’s grain to have bacon on the house, but the doctor had prescribed it because it was very nourishing. So I remember that. I also remember the year that, when they were married they bought a darling little house and I have memory glimpses of it, when he went to Providence to continue his education, he couldn’t afford mortgage payments on the house and nobody in the family could help. My grandparents were on the farm eking out a living for themselves, and my older uncle was still in college. The younger uncle was still a boy in high school. So they sold the house. Then came the summer in, must’ve been 1932, or ’33, when we had been living in an apartment on Hobart St. in Pittsburgh, and we could not stay in that apartment through the summer because we didn’t have money to pay the rent. So my mother and I moved out to the farm with my grandparents. I didn’t think that was a hardship. I loved being on the farm, but for my father that meant he had to drive thirty miles back and forth each day in order to teach and he considered himself lucky because he got summer school work that year. It wasn’t always available. . . At one point during the mid thirties, one of my father’s students asked him if our family could use a maid. Well, the idea of having a maid was really a totally foreign concept. There was no money to put food on the table all the time. But what Bob wanted to know was could my folks take in his sister, Stella. And she would be a maid, help my mother. And by this time I had a younger brother who was still a baby. She would help with him, just for board and room. So my mother did, and that’s how Stella got through those years. She taught my mother to make the best Italian spaghetti sauce. . . That certainly made it clear that the Depression was touching a lot of people. Very tough times. There were hoboes that came to the door that would beg for food and offer to do a job. Well, living in a moderate house in the city, there weren’t many jobs that needed to be done, but my mother always fed them.

Q: Did you ever pass any “Hoovervilles” of homeless people?

Mrs. Faigen: No. . . I was never aware of any.

Q: What did you do for fun during this era? Did you listen to radio?

Mrs. Faigen: It was radio. We listen to Jack Benny and Fred Allen and Eddy Cantor and Jack Armstrong, the All American Boy, Little Orphan Annie, and I was always miffed because I couldn’t drink Ovaltine because it was too expensive and you had to send the inner seal from the Ovaltine to get a decoder ring, a magic decoder ring. Well, my dad, being a mathematician had no trouble figuring out the code. All I had to do was to take down the numbers of that day and he’d tell me what the message said. I can do it too now. There were two programs, two mystery programs that, we listened to the Green Hornet, and, let’s see, was it the Green Hornet? Yeah, “What evil lurks in the hearts of men?  The hornet knows.” And he had a faithful servant, Cato. What else was on radio? Inner Sanctum, which opened with a creaking door and it was so scary, and the mysteries were scary. And there was a program called I Love a Mystery, with Jack, Doc and Reggie, three comrades who had adventures and solved the mysteries. We did a lot of playing outdoors. In the winter, there was sledding and ice skating, but there were no outdoor ponds to skate on, we went to Ducan Gardens, which is or was the home of the Pittsburgh Penguins. There was bike riding. The girls played dolls. Some girls were very upset because they weren’t allowed to play touch football with the guys, but the girls’ mothers’ told them that this was not appropriate, and it would’ve been hard to play touch football in a dress. Shorts and slacks were for summer only. Have you ever heard of Kennywood Park? . . . It was a wonderful amusement park. It wouldn’t stack up to much these days. Every June, the kids in school got a chance to buy tickets. They were three cents a ticket and you could buy as many as one hundred. And then on Kennywood Park day, you’d board the trolley which took you quite a way out to the park, and you’d go on all the amusements. And a hundred tickets were really quite enough. Some families brought a picnic lunch with them and sat at the picnic table in the groves, and I was usually invited to go with another family on these occasions. There was a swimming pool there but on Kennywood Park day I never went swimming. Later as I grew older my, the man who is now my husband  and I went and swam at Kennywood Park. Beautiful big pool. I’ve always wanted to go back to the park but I never had a chance to do that. Maybe next year. We went to the library, the Carnegie library, Carnegie Museum. There were programs at the museum for young people. I got to go behind the scenes and work on an archaeology project, built a model of the temple at Chichen Itsa. And there was a “Y” at which we could swim. There were a lot of things to do. And read. Would you believe the children read in those days? In the summer the Carnegie Library had a reading contest and the idea was to see how many books you could read, but you had to report on them to one of librarians, so no goofing. She had to know you had read the book. I won the contest every year.

Q: And what about movies?

Mrs. Faigen: Shirley Temple, Tarzan. I don’t remember much of the other movies. I remember the serials we would see on Saturday afternoons. Tomniks, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, a lot of Cowboy serials, and a lot of Cowboy movies. Before the War admission to the movies was ten cents. When the War started, they put on a penny war tax, and then eventually another penny, so it cost the high old sum of twelve cents to see a matinee. And the movies ran continuously. So you could go when the movies open at one ‘o’clock and you could stay forever if you wanted to and if your parents weren’t expecting you home for dinner.

Q: What kind of music did you enjoy?

Mrs. Faigen: Our family enjoyed music a lot, so there was always classical music, symphonies. We had old records, very old records, the one sided very thick records wax records, which featured opera performers such as Caruso, Alma (inaudible), Louisa Tetrazzini, and there were other, and I particularly like to listen to those, and so when the Texaco people started broadcasting operas on Saturday afternoons, this was something that the whole family would do. And I still enjoy listening to this music. . . I also enjoy listening to Frank Sinatra. I don’t remember what year he burst upon the scene but I think I was still a bobby sockser at the time. I did not faint, the way you see in some of the news reels, but he was a dream boat. I saw him in person once.

Q: Did you watch any sports?

Mrs. Faigen: No, not much. Our family was not very sports minded. But every year the Pittsburgh Pirates would have a Ladies Day, and I went once, and I didn’t know what was happening. One of the players that I remember from those years  was Frank Gustine. . .

Q: What was your high school like?

Mrs. Faigen: It was great. It was large. It was called Taylor Allderdice, and it included grades seven through twelve, and the seventh and eighth grades were often in one wing, not really segregated because we had to use stairs. There were up stairs and down stairs, and you had to be careful that the principal wasn’t walking behind you when you were going the wrong way, up the down stairs. . . There was a huge cafeteria, and you had to eat in three shifts. . .

Q: Did you have a junior prom or senior prom?

Mrs. Faigen: We had a junior prom, yes. And I went, and our high school had a swimming pool which was good because we had to learn swimming, we had to pass swimming before we got out. And I hated gym. Everybody hated gym and hygiene. But I learned some good things in hygiene. I know how to cure head lice. And we had first aid because we were coming up to the War years in that time and it was important that we learned some of the basics of first aid, but I almost flunked the test because I almost couldn’t remember were the pressure point was for a femoral artery. Well I found it in time. My ‘patient’ didn’t bleed out.

Q: Some people say that kids in those days had heroes. Do you have a hero?

Mrs. Faigen: No, no. I didn’t know anybody who though in those terms. . . Maybe it should be put another way. Maybe we should say whom do you admire. And I have to say when I got a little older, not in these years, a little bit older than that I admired Eleanor Roosevelt. Still do.

Q: What do you remember about Eleanor Roosevelt?

Mrs. Faigen: Not much. . . I knew that she wrote a column called “My Day”, I knew that she was not liked very much, but neither was her husband. I knew that she stood up for labor unions and for the working people. She was a remarkable woman, but those are probably my only memories.

Q: In an average day, did you have any adventures?

Mrs. Faigen: Well it depends what time of year it was. When I was younger, when I was in real elementary school, grades kindergarten and one, that was the time we live in the apartment I mentioned before, there was a bully in our neighborhood, and his name was Cyril. Those were the days when tires had inner tubes.  And Cyril would get an inner tube, and cut it so he had a circle or rubber, and he would find a good, strong twig, shaped like that [forked] and attach the  rubber circle to it and he would  have a slingshot. And we had to watch out  for our legs as we went home. So it was always an adventure as we tried to escape Cyril. That was one adventure. Other adventured happened when I was on the farm with my grandparents. Down the road, two farms down the road, there was a family named Cooperman, and they took in summer guests. They had three sons named Harry, Eddy, and Jimmy. And there were work horses on this farm. And the boys in turn would provide horseback rides on thee huge creatures. I never saw anything as big as  those horses. That was an adventure. It was particularly an adventure when we were riding the horse the day the chicken manure was taken to be spread out on the fields to enrich the crops. Ugh, the stink! Chicken manure is awful. It’s worse than cow manure. Everything on the farm was an adventure. The night one of my grandfather’s chicken coops caught on fire and all the men in the house, my grandfather, my uncle Lewis, my uncle  Earl, my father, a couple of hired men, had to rush to put  out the fire. And there was no water I the coops. They had to bring water from that well that I mentioned earlier. They set up a miniature bucket brigade. They lost one coop and part of a second. They lost all the chickens in the second coop. That was an adventure. An adventure was going down to the cellar in the farmhouse to stoke the furnace with coal on a winterish night.

Q: What kinds of chores or responsibilities did you have?

Mrs. Faigen: I had to keep my own room tidy and my clothes hung up. I had to help set the table and do the dishes. I didn’t learn to cook until I was in college because my mother was such a good cook and I was slow and she was not. She could not stand me in the kitchen, so I did very little in the way of kitchen chores. I did general things, when I was younger I looked after my brother who was five years younger than I. And hated that because he was such a pest. I can’t think of much else in the way of chores, there wasn’t much to do. Times were so good in one sense that I could leave the full set of furniture out on the porch and not have to think about it getting stolen. There were bums or hobos but you did not half to worry about them sleeping on it. So every day during the summer I had to dust the furniture, big deal.

Q: Did you work, did you have a job? If so, what?

Mrs. Faigen: I told you that my grandfather had six to eight thousand laying hens, and he would bring the eggs into the city once a week. Well, I was his squirrel hill.  That was our part of Pittsburgh, the squirrel hill distributor. He would bring me a crate a week, of thirty dozen and I would deliver them on foot, summer and winter. I would make the high old price of a nickel per box, which would give me a dollar fifty a week, except when it got to Easter and Passover season when eggs cost more money and I could make seven or eight cents a dozen, but in bad times I only made three or four cents. As I got a little older I did babysitting jobs. Later I learned to type because my friends went to camp and my parents did not have the money to send me to camp, so my Dad said, “If you learn to type, you can be my secretary.” He set me up with a card table on our front porch and his Underwood typewriter. The keys were so heavy I developed a touch I could probably beat an angel food cake with my fingers. Therefore when electronic typewriters came out I could never use one. So, I wrote theses for some of the undergraduate students at Tech, that paid pretty well, but those were days when there were no copying machines, and you had to make copies using carbon paper.

Q: How did religion impact your day-to-day life?

Mrs. Faigen: Very little, my father’s family hade been orthodox Jews, but my father had rebelled against that. My mother’s family had come from Russia and they were socialist and therefore religion was a secular thing. We celebrated the holidays, my great grandfather was in the wholesale produce business and at Hanukkah each year he would fill a bushel basket with silver dollars and we would grab as many as our hands could hold, I had such little hands.

Q: What was your family’s perception of the president at the time, FDR?

Mrs. Faigen: They liked him.  They thought the New Deal was a good thing. He started all these new projects that were very good for the country even though Republicans did not want to admit it. There was the Works Project Administration, which provided jobs, there was the Civilian Conservation Corps which again provided jobs. There were programs in the arts, the WPA. There was a big department store in Pittsburgh with beautiful murals on the first floor painted by some of the artist of this program. One of the artists I can remember was by the name of Will Barnett, who is a really old man right now. Another thing that happened under FDR’s administration was the advent of social security and this is a good thing. I can remember my father explaining to my grandfather what this was about and how he should pay into it. There came a time in my grandfather’s life when he would receive one hundred dollars a month and he did not keep it, he had six grandchildren so twice a year each grandchild would receive one hundred bucks. I do not do this with my grandchildren (laughs).

Q: Did you know anybody in any of the New Deal programs?

Mrs. Faigen: No (pause).

Q: Do you remember any of the great construction projects of the era like the Golden Gate Bridge, the Empire State building or the Hoover dam?

Mrs. Faigen: I remember knowing about the Empire State Building but not being close to it I really did not know much about it. I did not know about the Hoover Dam, I did not know about the Golden Gate Bridge, but I did know about the Tennessee Valley Authority, but I was young and frankly I didn’t care. My parents talked about it: TVA was good.  That’s about all I knew.

Q: Did you ever go to New York, to see the World’s Fair?

Mrs. Faigen: My father had a sister in New York so we went occasionally but one of the visits was when my father’s father died. This is what happened in those days many people did not travel. I went to New York in 1940 to see the World’s Fair. I remember the Paris Fair and something about the day of tomorrow and maybe there was a car ride like one that you would get in at Disneyland.

Q: What do you think Pittsburgh thought about Eleanor and FDR at the time?

Mrs. Faigen: People did not like FDR, and to this day people call him “that man.” He was forward looking. In the long run, I think he was greatly appreciated; he got us through the Great Depression and put into place a lot of programs that were good for the country and saw us through those war years. Whether he was as good at it than anybody else, I do not know. I think the rest of the country had the same feelings that I am expressing, there were people who greatly admired him and some that thought he should never have become president. I do not think Eleanor really came into her own until she was widowed and really carving out a life for her self. I can remember some great quotes by Eleanor that state, “Never apologize your friend won’t need it and your enemies won’t believe you anyways.”

Q: Do you remember anything about the war years and Hitler’s rise into power?

Mrs. Faigen : Yes, I remember my parents talking about it and being extremely worried about it and I remember 1939 when Germany marched into Poland and I remember Neville Chamberlain and I certainly remember the Holocaust. I lost family in the Holocaust.  Not close family, but I know which family branches don’t exist anymore. People did not believe the stories coming out of Europe. We cheered, when some of the shiploads of people were sent off to Israel, we cried when the ship Exodus was turned away, we were overcome by the horror of the holocaust when the truth of it came known. My uncle Earl was in the Army in the AACA, but he did not go to Europe he served in Puerto Rico as a defense force. My aunt’s younger brother was killed on Iwo Jima. My husband graduated a year earlier so he could get one year of college education before enlisting in the army but that was in later years. As refugees started to come from Europe my grandfather took some of them onto the farm, he had a little house built there.

Q: When you were little did you hear anything about what was going on in Asia or Japan or was it mostly European news.

Mrs. Faigen: We had very little knowledge of the Asian countries even as I got older in High School there was no history unit on Japan or China. Of course, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor that was another story. We also talked about Chiang Kai-Shek, he had a very brilliant wife that graduated from one of our American colleges, the Seven Sisters I think. This was very interesting but no there was not a lot of emphasis on the Asian countries.

Q: Do you remember anything about the Hurricane of 1938?

Mrs. Faigen: No, because the Hurricane of 38 did not happen in Pittsburgh but I can tell you about the flood of 1936. The Great St. Patrick’s Day flood. The flood stage at that point was 25 feet high, the waters crested at 48 feet. Most of the downtown section of Pittsburgh was wiped out and it had to be rebuilt. Of course the electricity was gone, the trolley cars and trains could not run because the water covered the tracks. The KDKA, which was the first radio station, could broadcast because it had a generator but the generator could not work because the electricity was out. However, the flood did not affect me entirely because my house was out of the flood zone.

Q: Do you think people today are still affected by the Great Depression today?

Mrs. Faigen: Well, I am.  I think twice before I make a long distance call.. When I was little long distance calls were expensive and were saved for news of tragedies if somebody died or if somebody was really ill, that is when you made a long distance call. I try to not throw out food; we use things until they are pretty well used up. My mother bought towels to hang in the bathroom when guests came, but when the guests left my mother would take down the towels and put them away and we used the towels that had frayed hems or had shrunk, what difference does it make?  It was a towel. You wear clothes until they are not wearable anymore and it does not bother me if I have one good outfit that people see me in. Whether the Depression still affects people in general I do not know, I think if you come to learn about it and learn lessons from it particularly know I think that’s useful. I think the project that you’re doing is fascinating and intriguing.

Q: How are the kids of today comparable to the kids of then? How are they different?

Mrs. Faigen: I think kids today are smarter, I think they have more opportunities, I think there are more professions for them to go into. My choices as a girl were to become a teacher, a nurse, or a secretary. There are so many fields available, college kids can take a year abroad, that never an opportunity when I was in college. My granddaughter spent last summer in France perfecting her French and a semester in Edinburgh perfecting her writing; there are wonderful things available. In general the word is opportunity; you have better educational opportunities, there is more for you in high school, even in these hard economic times.

Q: What percentage of kids from your high school went onto college?

Mrs Faigen: There were lots.  Our high school had a very good reputation. I think 50% of the kids went on to college.

Q: How many were girls?

Mrs. Faigen: A lot were girls.  Many, however, married right out of high school or went to business schools to become secretaries, which were very valued at the time.

Q: How diverse was the neighborhood where you lived?

Mrs. Faigen: There were Christians and Jews living in the community.  There were no black families, there were no Hispanic families, there were no Asian families, and there were no Muslim families in our area. There was a section of Pittsburgh however that was predominantly black known as the Hill. There were sometimes racial battles and riots because blacks were not always welcome in white communities. Things have changed however, Squirrel Hill where I grew up now houses many Asian families and In general most things are changing as related to diversity.

Q: Because of how badly the economy is doing now days with oil prices sky rocketing what is some advice you can give to people of our generation?

Mrs. Faigen: I am not one to give advice but to answer your question, my advice is to gain as much knowledge as you can, learn as much as you can about this situation, be aware of global warming and be willing to do something about it. Turn our attention from oil as our only energy source to other things which are possible such as wind, thermal or solar energy. Don’t get into the habit of saying we tried that before and it didn’t work. Sometimes the time is not right and things that couldn’t work before because of a lack of technology could work now. Don’t be afraid to take chances. I think that is enough for one day.

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